55. The Wisest Investment with Robin Taub

Transcript:

Evan Neufeld: Hello, and welcome back to the Canadian Money Roadmap podcast. I'm your host, Evan Neufeld. 

Today, we got a really fun episode for you. This is the first interview podcast of this year. We're already into September and we haven't done too many interviews, so this one's going to be fun. This was with Robin Taub and she's an expert on teaching your kids about money.

Okay. Joining us today is Robin Taub, author of The Wisest Investment. This book is about teaching your kids to be responsible, independent, and money smart for life. Robin is an accountant turned author and speaker and is an expert at this topic of teaching kids about money. So Robin, thanks so much for joining us on the Canadian Money Roadmap today.

Robin Taub: My pleasure.

Evan Neufeld: So before we started recording here, I was mentioning that in the CFP program, we mostly kind of gear towards folks that are getting closer to retirement, business transitions, things like that. The idea of teaching kids about money doesn't really come up in my traditional training here and my daughter is only two and so I haven't really started to think about this too much. So, but I think this is quite timely and you have a lot of value to add for us, but before we get into some of the meat of the book and some of the things that you'd recommend for people. Tell us a little bit about your background and what was your motivation for writing the book.

Robin Taub: Sure, as you mentioned, I am an accountant by training but I like to say that I'm not your typical accountant because I don't practice anymore.  I did for a long time, but then I transitioned out and I worked in industry, in real estate and then on the training floor at Citibank and in derivatives marketing. I also have two kids who are in their twenties now and I always felt it was important and a priority to teach them about money as they were growing up. And my husband's also an accountant by training, so this wasn't something that we were shying away from or uncomfortable with in our house, because it was just kind of a natural topic.  I could see that as my kids were getting older, that it was paying off because they just seemed to understand how to manage money.

You know, when they went off to university, they were comfortable with managing their own households and budgets. And even to this day, they're both now working, they are very I like to say, mostly money smart because no one's perfect. But the reason that I wrote the book was that CPA Canada, which is the governing body of accounts in Canada, they wanted to create a resource to help parents after the 2008 global financial crisis, they did research, which showed that parents were really struggling. A survey found that 78% of parents had tried to teach their kids, but two thirds didn't feel they were being particularly successful and more than half didn't know what information they needed.

So I had just started working this area, content creation on financial literacy. I was working with the Ontario securities commission and I was volunteering for CPA Canada on a totally different matter, which was their initiative for women's leadership. So they were like, we want to write and create a book about this for parents.  It's going to be our first consumer publication. Would you be willing to write it? And I was like, Hmm, I've never thought about writing a book before, but usually I'm good with numbers, obviously I'm in accountant, but also with words, I've always been strong in both areas. So I was like, okay, I'll write a book.  So I did and the original book was called A Parents Guide to Raising Money Smart Kids, and they published it.  Fast forward 10 years later, my kids are now grown up and the world has changed a lot. It's gone digital and horribly we've had this pandemic. So I really felt the book needed to be updated, to reflect the digital post pandemic world.  So I updated it, I self-published it, and it's now called The Wisest Investment.

Evan Neufeld: Awesome.  I saw on the cover there, you've got a little shout from the wealthy barber even, David Chilton.

Robin Taub: Isn’t that cool? Yes. So Dave created this amazing course for nonfiction book creation and marketing.  It's called the Chilton method. I mean, he is the foremost expert, I would say, on non-fiction book marketing in maybe the world. And I took the course before I did the update of the book. And then I, took it again and again.  It's a bunch of videos and I just kept watching them. And it was like a blueprint for how to create a really great book I think.  So, yeah, we reached out to him and he was willing to provide the testimonial, which was just one of my proudest moments, because it really was such a great endorsement to have him call it a treasure chest of great ideas.

Evan Neufeld: Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. I've got a copy of The Wealthy Barber Returns behind me on my shelf there.

Robin Taub: I think everyone does right somewhere. Yeah, it was just the first personal finance book that was in a novelized format and it really changed the game.

Evan Neufeld: Awesome. Well, let's jump into some of the content here as far as raising money-smart kids. You mentioned maybe let's put it back on the parents here for a second here. So you mentioned in some of that research that a lot of people feel like they failed in teaching their kids about money. What does failure look like in that way? So someone tried and what does failure look like?  Or maybe why do parents struggle with this area?

Robin Taub: So the biggest challenges that parents face are feeling like they lack the time or the knowledge or the opportunities to teach their kids about money. So time, you know, we're just, everyone's so busy and it feels really like just one more thing you have to do. To deal with that, I tell parents to try to look for teachable moments, opportunities to teach their kids about money that just crop up naturally. So if you're, I mean, I don't know if you guys have taken your little ones to the ATM with you and you've gotten cash out, but once they start talking, they may ask you why money just comes out of a hole in the wall.  So that's an opportunity to explain, you know, it's like a piggy bank. If no money goes in, no money can come out. How does the money go in? Well you have a job and you know, all those little things.  Or if they're with you when you're grocery shopping or anywhere you're using a debit or credit card, once they get a bit older, you can explain how those things work.  So lack of time is for sure one. Lack of knowledge is a really big one. So we're lucky, we're financial professionals. We feel comfortable, confident around money. A lot of Canadians, a lot of people generally don't and they're embarrassed or ashamed of their finances. In fact, I think FP Canada just did a study which showed that I think it was, I have to just double check that this is the one I'm thinking of, that many parents feel embarrassed or ashamed thinking they should be doing better at this stage of their lives.

So it's just easy not to talk about it when you're so busy with other things. But just because you're not talking about money doesn't mean that your kids aren't learning from you in the way you behave and picking up things. So I think people are ashamed, they're afraid they're going to make mistakes in teaching their kids or they're afraid that they've made so many mistakes and they're not sure if they should share them and they're afraid they're going to get uncomfortable questions.  You know, like, are we rich or how much money do you make or do we have a mortgage? So, you know, and parents are just, they shy away from answering those questions. So there's quite a lot of reasons. I guess I didn't say parents had failed, I said they didn't feel they'd been very successful.

Evan Neufeld: That was poor interpretation on my part.

Robin Taub: No, no, no, it's not. But I think there's a subtle difference in that. Maybe they felt the lessons didn't stick, that they didn't share information that was age appropriate, that they didn't focus on the right things at the right moment. So I think there's a lot of ways that parents can feel like, “Ah I tried, but I just didn't do a great job”. And like, as you say, it's kind of hard, it's parenting in general. How do you know that you're doing a good job, that you are a good parent, that your kids are going to grow up okay.

Evan Neufeld: There's no test to pass, every kid's different

Robin Taub: Yes, there is no test to pass as a parent. It's so it's so hard to know how you're doing along the way and sort of look for these signposts and these tells and these milestones. And that's what I've tried to give parents is like a bit of a roadmap. So here's how to go about it. Here's what kids should know, kind of at different ages and stages based on research and speaking to other parents in my own experience.  I mean it's a hard thing. Like parents have to try to find these teachable moments and also be aware of the kind role model that they are for their kids.

Jordan Arndt: On that note though, Robin, one of the takeaways that I had, it was early in the book. You mentioned that you don't have to set aside extra time necessarily.  You're going to go to the grocery shop. You're going to go grocery shopping. You know, you mentioned it, you're going to take out cash from the ATM. You're going to go through these day to day activities that provide those learning opportunities, which I really like that. It can feel overwhelming, but if we simplify it, one of the takeaways I had is it doesn't necessarily have to be hard and you don't have to think of these grand ways to teach your kids.  These opportunities are going to come up every single day. And that's one of the things I noticed right away that you mentioned in the book.

Robin Taub: Oh, I'm glad that resonated with you because yeah, I was trying to tell parents, you don't have to set aside, money, school, time, everyone's got extracurriculars and homework and everything.  It will just prop up and your kids are curious, so it's just looking for those opportunities or taking advantage of them.

Evan Neufeld: Can we talk about that stages and ages thing that you mentioned before? So through the book, there's a number of sections that talk about teaching different things to kids of different ages.  So just walk us through how that conversation changes as kids grow up

Robin Taub: So there's what I call five pillars of money and they are earn, save, spend, share, and invest. Now those five pillars never change, but as your kids get older, the specific topics and examples for each of those five do so, the way I thought about this was I broke it down into four different stages.  So young kids, Five to eight. So a little older than your own toddlers. I don't normally recommend starting too much earlier than age five, because kids are just a little too young to absorb it, but, if you have a three- or four-year-old who's expressing curiosity, then definitely they're ready to learn a little bit about money.

Evan Neufeld: So the pressure's off, I have a few years.

Robin Taub: So yes, young kids, five to eight, then preteens 9 to 12, teenagers 13 to 17, and then emerging adults, 18 and older. And again, just rough guidelines. So obviously what you're going to talk to a university or college age or working teenager or young adult about within the area of earning or spending, is going to be very different than what you talk to a preteen about in those areas. I tried to make the information in the book extremely specific and practical for those different ages, but always falling under one of those five pillars. And I mean, you really want to make sure the information that you share is age appropriate, because if it's too high above, they're just going to zone out and tune out like financial literacy should be delivered at that stage of life that you're in, where it's relevant and useful to your life or you're not going to retain it.  So if it's too below them, then it’s just not going to be practical. So I tried to think about what they would need to know at every age and stage, and also it builds on itself. So ideally you want to start teaching your kids when they're young and then you can keep building on these five pillars and they have a foundation and they just keep getting more sophisticated in terms of what you're talking about.

Jordan Arndt: That's awesome. Question about the parents here still. So as you're thinking about those five pillars, you know, maybe someone's listening and feeling like, boy, I don't have this figured out. How do I teach my kids about it, if I feel like I'm learning too? You know, do you have any thoughts about that or as a parent, do you have to have this all figured out before you start to teach your kids as you go.

Robin Taub: Absolutely not. You do not have to have it all figured out. I love to say that this is something that you and your kids can learn together, because that is one of the barriers to parents. They do feel like how can I teach my kids if I'm not even doing it right myself, but you can learn together and teaching someone is a really good way to learn something or reinforce concepts. And you don't have to be perfect. You can share mistakes that you've made and learn, you know, every mistake is a lesson. So hopefully the book will give you the information that you need, or at least a starting point so you know what to talk about at different ages and stages? You know, it is hard for parents that are still struggling with bad habits or, you know, maybe too much debt. A lot of different things have come out of this pandemic, and money stress really can lead to physical and mental health issues, it's so important. You know, maybe this is a catalyst, teaching their kids might be the catalyst to get their own financial health in order so they can lead by example. I mean, I hope it is, because I think being a good financial role model is so important. In the book you probably saw there was like these 11 healthy habits of financial management.  So that could be a good place to start.

Evan Neufeld: Yeah. There's a measure of humility that that one has to have, you know, when teaching your kids about money, I suspect. So it's like, well, assuming you don't have it all figured out and you haven't got it all right along the way. Those are probably some of the more valuable things to share with your kids.  That's going to be a tough line to walk to say, hey, the most important thing I could tell you is how badly I messed this up myself, you know?

Robin Taub: Like, I mean, in some ways those lessons may be the ones that stick. I mean, a lot of times what we learn the hard way or our failures or our mistakes are the things where we really grow and change.  A small example of that would be I remember when my daughter got her first credit card. Even though I'd be teaching her stuff, she somehow missed her first payment deadline. I don't know what happened. She just didn't pay attention and she missed it. And when she told me about this, you know, it happens to me too, not very often, but occasionally something will just slip through or I'm a day late and I always call them you know, explain this and they can look at your pattern.  Then they know that that's true and they will reverse any interest charges. So I just, you know, I shared that with her. You know, don't feel bad about it. You know, you're still a money smart kid, but you know, we make mistakes. And I think the important thing is get on the phone, explain that it was a mistake, it was the first payment and ask them to reverse the charges. Because if you don't ask, they won't do it. But people don't even know that you can do that, that you can get on the phone if you've made a mistake. My assistant recently accidentally made a huge payment. It was supposed to be for her credit card and she paid it to a like her cell phone bill.  Yeah. And that was actually hard to get them to reverse it, but they did eventually, she ended up getting a check. But you know I said, I've done that too. Don't feel shamed about it, let's just figure out a solution.

Evan Neufeld: You can be both money-smart and money-forgetful sometimes, that's okay.

Robin Taub: Because there's cognitive overload. In fact, I just heard a podcast about this on the Wall Street Journal and they have a great podcast, a money one, and they were saying a lot of people have been forgetting to pay their bills. Not because they don't think it's important or they they're doing it on purpose, but they just get so overwhelmed.  Like you're about to pay your credit card and then all of a sudden, your kid calls from school or someone facetimes you or texts you, and you just forget. So, you know, to the extent that you can automate those things and take the self-discipline out of the process, that's probably a good solution for a lot of us.

Evan Neufeld: We're very much on the same page with that. Automate all your good habits. I have an episode, one of my earlier episodes is about how I hate budgeting because it's so tough to actually stick to. And so I like to automate things. My brain doesn't work in a budgeting way.  So anyways, that's neither here nor there. Let's hop into teaching your young children because Jordan and I, our kids aren't there yet, but most of our listeners would probably have kids in this demographic, or these might be things that maybe they're foundational.  I don't like to use the word basics or whatever. Let's call them essentials or things like that. But looking at those pillars again, the thing that jumped out to me was the investing section. Like boy, investing as a five to eight year old, there's not a lot of mechanisms to do that. Not in our line of work here, but you're sub-heading for that section is encouraging entrepreneurship beyond the lemonade stand.  I've been seeing tons of lemonade stands in my neighborhood, but anyway, talk me through that section.

Robin Taub: I still see them in mine. These girls that live across the street from me, they were a little bit older or they were 11, but they were selling these beaded bracelets and they were donating half the proceeds to the hospital for sick children in Toronto and half was going back into their business. I think they had an Instagram page and they were on social media. So they might actually have taken like square or PayPal but like you're absolutely right.

In that pillar invest at that stage, there's not going to be as much to talk about as there is in the emerging adult chapter, which I'm sure you've seen, there's like an introduction to stocks and bonds and asset allocation and diversification, all that. Yeah. Like a five- or six-year-old’s not going to be able to understand that. But they do get excited about doing a lemonade stand or selling beads or something like that. And then even at the preteen stage, you know, maybe you can talk to them about a GIC, a guaranteed investment certificate. And now with interest rates going up, people might actually start looking at a GIC again for their savings.  So and again, that's an opportunity to teach about locking in your money and getting a little more. So there's always something at every stage under the pillars, but some of them are more robust than others.

Evan Neufeld: Right. I was thinking here, just off the top of my head about how to encourage kids to be part of those conversations.  So for many kids, they might have an RESP set up for them. Which might be invested in things like stocks and bonds or mutual funds, ETFs, things like that. Even just showing your kids how their money, their future money is being invested for them, even though they don't have to make the decision, they don't really have to understand how it works, but is that a valuable conversation to have?

Robin Taub: Yeah, I mean, I would think for a teenager. Yeah. Like maybe at around the teenage stage and again, depending on how curious and interested they are. Showing them their RESP portfolio and explaining like what that even is, a registered education savings plan, so that when they go to university or college you can withdraw funds out of that plan and help pay for all those costs. Which we know now it averages I think 7,000 or 8,000 just in tuition for an undergrad, like a regular arts undergraduate, not even like a specialty like engineering and that doesn't include room and board. So student debt, you know, people are coming out with a lot of student debt, to the extent that you can save towards that in advance is great.  Explaining that is wonderful. Another idea. So when my daughter, I also have a son, I don't know why I haven't talked about him yet, but I will, but when my daughter was born, my brother bought her one share of Walt Disney Corporation. Oh, cool. And she has always kept, we've always kept it. And initially it came with a bear certificate, which we framed.

Evan Neufeld: I was going to ask. That's pretty cool.

Robin Taub: Yeah. I don't think they issue those anymore.

Evan Neufeld: I think you have to request them from investor relations or something.

Robin Taub: Yeah, probably. And the stock has split. I mean, now it's in her brokerage account, but it's, you know, it's split and she's always kept it. And even when she was little before we did the drip, the dividend reinvestment, she was getting these little dividend checks for like a few cents.  And we would, you know deposit them at the bank and she was getting the annual reports. And because it was Disney, they were very cool. Like they had like cartoons and pictures, they would talk about, you know, what's in an annual report, like what went on that year and they would talk about some of the movies in the theme parks.  So that was an amazing way to interest a kid in a stock. And yeah, as I said, she still owns it and I think it's probably done okay over the years. It's not like apple, but still.

Evan Neufeld: Yeah. The house of mouse is paying you. That's pretty cool.

Robin Taub: It's very cool. So that's another way to get like a kid interested, maybe either with a mock portfolio or just even like a small amount, fractional ownership of like a share of something that they're interested in just to get them engaged.

Jordan Arndt: It's really interesting hearing you talk about this because when we think investing in our world, you know, we think of what plan are you holding it in?  What are you investing in? But you know, starting with those young kids, investing in yourself, the entrepreneurship idea, the lemonade stand or beyond that and what that looks like. And then as they get older, some of those other lessons that you had. Simple versus compound interest in there.  You know, the drip, the dividend reinvestment something like that. I just got to imagine that by the time your kid hits 18, and now they have the opportunity to maybe open that TFSA or whatever else. They are so much more well prepared to do that based on all these lessons that you've been able to teach them through the years.

Robin Taub: Yeah, exactly. And I think investing in yourself is a really important point. Whether it's just ongoing professional development in your career or learning something. That you don't know about. And I promise, I would share a story about my son who's older than my daughter. So he studied philosophy and political science in university, not the most practical and during the pandemic he wasn't working.  So I said to him, this is a great time for you to take an investing course. Yay. So I said to him, if you take it, I'll take it. I couldn't take it at the same time as him because I was taking another course, but I took it two months later and it was really good because it taught him stuff that you needed to know, just very fundamental stuff about value investing. And then we could talk about it. We were on the same page. I knew exactly what he had learned, you know, and now we have like a way to have these conversations. And as you point out, it's so important to start investing when you're young because of the power of compounding.  And that's a really important lesson to share is try to start investing early.

Evan Neufeld: One thing that you kind of cover off by going through a course like that or teaching kids things really early. And then, you know, as they go on, when they start to have to make the decisions for themselves, one of the biggest hurdles that I've seen is that people don't know what they don't know.  And so they don't even know what questions to ask sometimes. Things might come up that's like, boy, I wouldn't have even thought to think that. But had you had a little bit of background in investing or understood what an RESP was, while it was invested for you, as opposed to for your own kids, you know, you might know what to ask along the way a little bit.

Robin Taub: That's a good example. I think that's probably the whole reason you have a podcast because I think now there's other ways to learn. I kind of think it's incumbent on us to have for everyone to have some personal finance knowledge, just like I sort of have to have a little bit of medical knowledge just to manage my own personal health.

I think everybody needs to have a little financial knowledge now, you know, that doesn't mean you have to be an expert, but like you said, at least having a feel-good feel for like what some of the issues are, what some of the products are. At least, you know, the right questions to ask the expert, like the CFP or your portfolio manager, because I feel like it's gotten very sophisticated and complicated and I'm sure you probably feel the same way.  Like if a client is a little bit financially literate, maybe those conversations go a little easier. They're more well informed. You can have a kind of different discussion, maybe better outcomes and decisions.

Evan Neufeld: I find that the more people understand about their own plan, the more likely they are to stick with it.  Because if it's blind trust in someone like myself, then when the next bear market comes they freak out and rightfully so. Right. Cause you don't know what's going on. Right. So the more you can understand even a little bit, the more likely it's okay. I understand what this is, I know what I'm investing in and so on. But we're deviating a little bit from the kids a little bit here.

Robin Taub: Yeah, but how do you kind of get to that point where you feel like, yeah, I'm financially literate. I'm well informed. Well, I think it starts hopefully when you're younger and you just build and build on it.  But I think self study is a big part of that. Listening to podcasts. I mean, a question I get all the time is, you know, I wish my kids, I wish I had learned this in school or what, you know, I can't believe they didn't teach this in school. So maybe people, you know, my age, your age, didn't get it in school.  Now it is happening. In Canada you know, in the different provinces in school, but in different ways. I still feel like parents have a huge role to play and then as you get older, you know, you really have to continue to learn about this.

Evan Neufeld: Absolutely. One really specific thing that I know a lot of parents listening and myself are interested in is the idea of allowance.  Do you have any specific thoughts on allowance?  I'm sure that was a big part of your thought process in writing this book.

Robin Taub: Yeah. That question always comes up and I think the issue around it is whether you pay your children for chores or have them do their chores out of a sense of responsibility and then how much to pay and all that stuff.  The way I've always looked at it is, I mean, obviously this has to be in line with the family's values and in line with their means and other things. But an allowance really is a great money management tool because it gives your kid, they're earning it and we'll talk about that in a sec, but once they have it, then they have to choose and make those choices. Those four other pillars, how much to save or spend or share or invest. So some parents want their kids to earn their allowance, so then they understand like what it takes to make money, whereas others they just want their kids to do their chores out of a sense of family responsibility and pulling their weight. And they figure they can earn money by getting a job when they're old enough, even an odd job, like as a teenager babysitting and then as a real job when they get a bit older.  I think you can do a bit of a hybrid where you pay a basic allowance, so they have some money of their own so that they can make those choices and make mistakes like we talked about. Then you can always pay them a little more if they have to do certain things that are kind of above and beyond just the day-to-day chores. I'm sure you guys know there's lots of FinTech apps now that help families manage their money and help parents manage their allowance and tie it to chores and keep an eye on like some oversight on spending.  One of them is WALO. Which is an independent app. It's not owned by one of the big banks. Like they've gotten financing from the Desjardins group, but they're not like affiliated with any of the big banks. Mydoh another one, but they're with RBC. So there's just a lot of apps out there because I think we're in this digital age as I mentioned at the top, parents don't always have cash around. So, this is a way to give their kids an allowance. They have a debit card they can spend, but it's tied to chores and there's an educational component too.

Evan Neufeld: That's pretty cool because you know I've got an apple watch and so I often pay for groceries with my watch and like still it kind of makes my head explode, just that concept. It's tough for me to align how I interact with money and then say okay here's your piggy bank with these coins that you're never actually going to see in real life, because by the time you actually get to spend it, you're going to pay with your watch or blinking twice or whatever it's going to be by the time they get to be that age.

Robin Taub: I know, I think though with kids, your young kids, I don't know if your two-year-old has a piggy bank, Evan.

Evan Neufeld: She does. It's empty though.

Robin Taub: A lot of little kids still have one and I know we're not visual, but normally I would show like this multi slot of a piggy bank. I don't know if you've seen them, but they have four slots for save, spend, share, and invest.  So that kind of makes those choices more tangible. But I agree, we're more and more in a digital era. Although, I don't know if you guys were impacted by that Rogers outage, like a month ago?

Evan Neufeld: Not as much here, actually Saskatchewan is a bit of an island. Rogers isn't as big here, but there were places that I think their debit machines or something like that.

Robin Taub: Ontario, it was pretty pervasive and lots of places were no credit cards, no debit and  cash only. So it kind of brought home just a reminder that you still need some cash in your wallet. You never know in case of emergency. And again, with little kids you want money to be tangible and concrete and something that they can really understand and get, as opposed to like this totally abstract concept of tapping a watch or a phone or a piece of plastic. Like it's just hard for them to understand what that's all about. Like you said, even we don't really understand, like it's complicated. Our Canadian currency is like fun and it's got like loonies and toonies and cool Canadian symbols on them.  So it's like another teachable moment. Right? You can explain how to make change, and you can talk about those symbols. A little Canadian history lesson can be built in.

Evan Neufeld: That's an interesting thing that I honestly didn't think about because I like cooking a lot and Jamie Oliver is a huge proponent of like healthy eating and teaching your kids about cooking as a means to eat healthy. And one of the ways he recommends getting kids to eat vegetables is using a crinkle cutter. So it's like, Hey, if your cucumber looks kind of fun, you might try it. You know, so maybe if your money is purple, that is cool. You know?

Robin Taub: Yeah. And like, as I said, you know, we've got like the beaver and the loon and the sailboat, it's kind of cool when you look. And then obviously the prime minister and the queen. Like all that stuff. It can be fun if you make it so.

Jordan Arndt: Maybe just to tie it all together. One of the things you talk about in the book is using goals with your kids and specifically with money, how have you seen goals, they can be a bit of a hard thing. Evan and I talk about that sometimes. Like how have you seen goals used most effectively with kids and maybe at some of the different stages that you've been talking about?

Robin Taub: Goals that are tied to your values, your personal values, the things in your life that are most important to you are going to be more meaningful and compelling.  So I feel like for adults having a good understanding of your values is really important. And I actually have on my website, www.robintaub.com a free values validator. So people can do a little assessment and figure out what their top five values are, because your values can act as an invisible framework to help guide and prioritize financial decisions and set goals.  And even your kids, like older kids, maybe from preteen and up can do this because they also will have their own strongly held values based on family values, but also their own personalities and how they're hardwired. So it's good to get them to do the value validator too, and then to tie their own goals to those values.  Another really effective way is for parents to get their kids, to save for goals, to offer to match it and a lot of parents I speak to do that. So if their child's saving up for something big, maybe a new computer or a cell phone or just something they really want, whether it's a video game or clothes or something. Parents, if they can afford to again, and if they agree with the goal they can offer to help match it. So if the kid can save about half or a third, they'll come up with the remainder. So it's just kind of like analogous to group savings plan at work, or even like the RESP that you mentioned, you put money in and then there's a government grant that matches that.  So no one likes to leave money on the table.

Jordan Arndt: I was just thinking that, the government does that, or corporations, charity, you know, you chip in a dollar we'll chip in two or whatever ratio is doesn't really matter. That's great. That that's really interesting.

Robin Taub: For fundraising too, you see that a lot with corporations, but for sure, like with group RRSP plan and stuff like that. So parents will also sometimes do that to help their kids save.

Evan Neufeld: I've also seen that as a withdrawal strategy for RESP. So sometimes, you know, kids will have or parents will have X amount of money in an RESP, but they don't necessarily want to pay for all the kids school, but they were quite diligent and they have plenty to do it.  And so they say, okay, they don't need to tell the kids how much is saved in there necessarily, I’m not a big fan of keeping secrets, but whatever. But at the same time, so like say school is $6,000 and say, okay, if you can come up with $3,000 just to teach the work ethic or the earning side of things, we'll pay the other three or whatever the case may be or something like that.  I've seen that before.

Robin Taub: Or the kids have to pay, like, let's say they're going out of town and they have room board. So maybe you pay the tuition out of the RESP and some of the room and board and then they have to manage some of their own personal lifestyle with their own money that they've worked for in the summer or saved up or have part-time job during school.

Evan Neufeld: Awesome. As we wrap up here, Robin, I always try to make things as practical as possible, and you've shared some good practical tips with us, but do you have any of the highest value, highest impact strategies that you would recommend for people teaching their kids about money, that you'd be willing to share our listeners.

Robin Taub: Yes, I think I've probably mentioned them all, but it's great idea to recap them. So, the first one is to use your values to help guide and prioritize financial decisions and set goals. And again, there's a values validator on www.robintaub.com and look for teachable moments to build a money lesson into your day to day lives. And I'm sure everyone who's listening, they could probably come up with at least two this week, two opportunities to build a money lesson. And then the third is to try to get your own financial house in order so that you can lead by example and be good financial role model to your kids. And I have a free role model self-assessment at www.thewisestinvestment.com. And in the book, the 11 healthy habits too, just giving you some ways to do that, to get your own house in order. So those are really my, my three best strategies for teaching kids. And then again, just try to share information that's age appropriate under those five pillars of earn, save, spend, share, and invest.

Evan Neufeld: Wonderful. So wrapping up with the book here again, is called The Wisest Investment, is the new name for it. And so who should read the book and where can they find it.

Robin Taub: It is written for parents, but certainly I've had so many parents tell me that they've given it to their older kids to read, like again probably preteen teen and up.  Grandparents love it, I've had grandparents buy it for their adult children and to use with their grandkids. Aunts and uncles and teachers, teachers are another group. Financial literacy is now being taught in schools across the country. So I've had teachers use the book as lessons, because as you've seen, there's like some very practical like family discussion or to dos and you can kind of use those as classroom discussion ideas and the easiest place to find the book is if you go to www.thewisestinvestment.com, there's a link right on there to Amazon. It's available as an eBook and a paper copy.

Evan Neufeld: Awesome. Now, Robin I am going to put you on the spot here, you're writing about money for kids, have you ever thought about writing a kid's book?

Robin Taub: I haven't, I don't think I will, but I know of two really good ones because this little community of teaching kids is small. So a fellow named Will Rainey, wrote a book called “Grandpa's Fortune Fables” and then there's another one by Rob Phelan called “M is for Money”.  And those are for kids to read. So as you can tell probably by the name and they're for like younger kids to read and they're both really good. No, I don't foresee writing a book for kids.

Evan Neufeld: Well, I appreciate the recommendation there because I'm right in the market for buying kids books here.  So that's perfect. Thanks for those recommendations. Robin, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us. This was really cool to have this conversation with you and yeah. Thanks for joining us.

Robin Taub: My pleasure. Maybe when your kids are a little older, I'll come back and we'll talk about, you know, what you've actually experienced.

Evan Neufeld: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Canadian Money Roadmap podcast. Any rates of return or investments discussed are historical or hypothetical and are intended to be used for educational purposes only. You should always consult with your financial, legal and tax advisors before making changes to your financial plan. Evan Neufeld is a Certified Financial Planner and Registered Investment Fund Advisor. Mutual funds and ETFs are provided by Sterling Mutuals Inc.